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Monday night LIVE

  • David Mazower
  • 12 Feb 07, 06:00 PM

Tonight we talked about whether life imprisonment should actually mean life, as a notorious murderer in Germany is about to be released. Is the US Presidential hopeful Barack Obama black enough for African-American voters? And after their Grammy success, has the US public forgiven the Dixie Chicks for saying they were ashamed of President Bush?

First up, a former member of the Baader-Meinhof gang is to be freed on probation after serving 24 years for her involvement in kidnappings and murders in the 1970s. A German court ruled that Brigitte Mohnhaupt, 57, qualifies for early release after serving a minimum proportion of her five life sentences.


Najeeb in Pakistan:

She has spent 24 years behind bars - that is more than enough. I think she has paid the price, and the victim's family should adopt a humanitarian approach.


Red Man in Malta:

Business men kill one hundred thousand children under five years old each and every day. God bless her .


Anonymous text:

The US judiciary system is flawed. Some defendants have been convict ed by the most flimsy of evidence Ten states still use the electric chair.


Joseph in Voinjama:

Laws must be respected and as such this woman must be free after serving her term in accordance with the German law.


Mukul in Dayton, Ohio:

Red army faction carried out a campaign of voilence to impose its idealogy. We are seeing resurgance of such idealogy in Latin America, I think the timing is not right to release figures who share such idealogy.


Rui in Georgia, USA

It seems incredible the price the German people put on human life. Nine people killed by this murderer and Germany feels it's appropriate to release this woman back into society. She's not rehabilitated nor is she sorry. I feel that she should spend the rest of her life in prison for her crimes. The nine people didn't get to have a life


Jude in Vancouver

Releasing that murderous gang member may satisfy the law but it certainly does not satisfy justice. Only the victim can give forgiveness, and once the state has usurped that right, it has overstepped it's bounds. People on the left always trot out a supposed connection between light sentences and reduced crime. This has never been proven, because it is a false association.


Steve in USA

Only 24 years for an unrepentent murderer? That's enough to make a death penalty supporter out of me! She should at least be behind bars for the rest of her life. She's responsible for multiple murders. 24 years is a more lenient jail sentence than many non violent drug offenders get.


Max in Ukraine:

The cause she thought she fought for before is probably gone. And if according to psychiatrists she's otherwise no threat to society, why can't she enjoy the rest of her life free after 24 years behind bars. She may show no remorse, but society she once denied will thus show an example in humanity. Isn't the Christian world all about good for evil?


Steve, USA

I'm shocked by people thinking that 24 years is enough! 24 years for murdering people? That's is NOTHING! I thank GOD the Israelis got Adolf Eichmann rather than the germans giving him 15 years for planning the holocaust!


Kim in Portland, Oregon:

It absolutely blows my mind that someone who murdered 9 people and never showed remorse could ever be released from prison. Like the US, it sounds like the German "Justice" system is pretty messed up.


Next, we're discussing Barack Obama, and whether he can really grab the African-American vote:

Shuwary, Freetown:

As far as the rest of Africa is concerned Barack Obama is an American with little or no knowledge about the continent.

Makaka in Kenya:

Obama is an American and deserves the same chance to get to the White House as any other American. Give him a chance!


Rotoye, Lagos:

Obama is loved but I think americans are not yet ready to be led by a black man. Maybe twenty years down the line, but not now. Too much racism.


Kwesi in Accra:

If the American society isn't ready for a black prez they have no right to preach any democracy.


Pat in Oregon

I am very much interested in Obama's ideas and will follow him closely. I think his recent inspirational speech in Springfield Ill. reminds me of JFK in that it called on the people not the government to change and commit to a plan of action. I need to know more about him, but what I have seen so far I really like.


James in Kenya

I think Obama is a true representative of all the black communities in America.There's nothing like less black - it's about character!


S. K. Duworko, Liberia

Barako Obama's quest for the US Presidency goes beyond the Black American dream. It must be seen in the wider context of minorities in the US gaining the highest office in the US.

Mario in Prague:

Why not? He can't be worse than President Bush , and i wonder what would be the response if it was a black candidate for Prime Minister of Great Britain


Moses Yama from Monrovia, Liberia

Senator Obama should be look at as a future leader for all Americans, not just the blacks.


Daniel in Nigeria

Barack Obama's candidacy is a comic relief. He knows it and white folks around the world know it!


Finally, the Dixie Chicks... Does the Grammy win mean they've been forgiven by Americans?


Roy in Portland, Oregon:

A healthy democracy thrives on debate and dissenting ideas. The Dixie Chicks should have been applauded for publicly criticizing the Bush administration, not condemned.


Errol in Boston:

I am one of those Americans that have always felt the Dixie Chicks have nothing to apologise for. Rather, those people that crucified them should be apologising to them. This is especially true in light of what some of us always knew was a war based on lies, and that most Americans have finally come around to see for what is was.


Scott writes:

I think the Dixie Chicks' success is indicative of how the US public has moved back to the center, and their multiple Grammys are proof of this.


Mark in Canada:

The Dixie Chicks are traitors to their country, it's as simple as that. The fact that they have been allowed to win some award speaks volumes.


Norma in Oklahoma:

I've backed these ladies from the beginning. I'm proud to say they have a right to their opinions and the bravery to demonstrate that they won't back down.


John in Baltimore:

The Dixie Chicks pretty much got what they deserved for saying those things. The socialists in America and around the world have embraced them with open arms now, and I'm sure they are extremely happy for it.

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Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 06:25 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Donald Calderwood wrote:

Speaking as an American, I find the idea that one can take part in terrorism and outright murder of several innocent people and receive what in this country would be considered "a slap on the wrist" to be a mockery of justice and an insult to the families who were victimized. There are hundred of thousands in this country who are serving longer sentences for much less. I find the German law in this respect to be absurdly weak in comparison to our notions of American Justice.

Thank You

  • 2.
  • At 06:31 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Stephanie wrote:

Barak Obama-Is he white enough represent the issues of the white community?

  • 3.
  • At 06:37 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Ruth Garwood wrote:

Just the question whether Obama represents black people well enough is racist. Why does one person have to represent a whole group? Being black is part of his person and his experience, but we can avoid racism by assessing him as a person.


Cleveland, OH

  • 4.
  • At 06:38 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Femi wrote:

I am tired of constantly being reminded of the fact that I am black, African, colored, or whatever the heck you all call it. Can't a human being just live and let live? What is the facination with black people that everything we do needs to be dissected and analyzed. What kind of question is black enough? Aren't we all utlimately working and aiming for the same goals in life. All the comments placing emphasis on his color is making my skin crawl. The same thing happened during the super bowl, with emphasis being placed on the color of the skin of the coaches instead of their ability to coach. This country just seems to keep moving backwards. African Americans are Americans first, the question should be will Obama represent America well

  • 5.
  • At 06:39 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Jason Campbell wrote:

Let me see...

Barack Hussein Obama

Sounds like...

Borat Hussein Osama

Is he a parody of Saddam and Bin Laden?

On a serious note. Obama cannot represent me. American politics has long become a battle ground of rich elitist suck-ups. The idea that some guy with no monetary problems could ever represent anyone but the richest 1% in this country is a joke.

Obama is nothing but a tool for the democratic party. The democrats are desperate to revive their black voters so that Hillary will have a better shot at winning. As usual they will then return to ignoring the plight of the black poor another 4 years until they are needed at the polls again.

Jason / Wisconsin

  • 6.
  • At 06:48 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Brian in San Francisco wrote:

Is Obama black enough? I really don't care. I live in a multi-racial world and the old North vs South, Black vs White kind of arguments are totally lost on me.

The more important thing in my mind is whether he has the "big picture" of where America needs to go. I think he does, but does he have the political experience to pull it off?

While I'm glad that the Dixie Chicks did well at the Grammys, the people who vote for the professionally backed award programs do not represent the country as a whole. I watch award shows and wonder why did he or she win or why I haven't heard of that movie/group/show/etc.

The entertainment industry, sans country music, have no need to forgive the Dixie Chicks; they've mainly agreed with them for most of the time since the anti-Bush comment.

  • 8.
  • At 06:54 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Deo Byaruhanga wrote:

Dear BBC, I have no doubt that Barack Obama is black enough to represent the interests of the minority group. However, he doesn't needs to set up a platform like Abraham Lincoln did to " preserve the union" then use the victory to abolish slavery or Nelson Mandela having the charisma and determination to change the tide of opinion locally and internationally against apatheid. His major hurdles are convincing the Jewish Lobby that he will not reverse the anti-palestinian/ arab policy of the USA and the anti hispanic lobby which convinced President George Bush to erect the " American wall

  • 9.
  • At 06:56 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Eben wrote:

Positivity has no color. The fact that people are talking about him as an african american only perpetuates the fact that we are still divided. Anybody who continues keep us divided has no concept of how the U.S. as a country is to improve and should not be in politics.

America needs to figure out how we can work together to return our country to a path of enlightened positivity. If Obama is the person that can initiate programs and policies that move us toward that path then he will get my vote.

  • 10.
  • At 06:58 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Jerry wrote:

What do the Dixie Chicks need to be "forgiven" for? The lead singer stated her opinion, as is her right as an Anerican.

Incidentally, my wife is from Texas, and no one in her family has ever had anything good to say about George Bush.

  • 11.
  • At 07:01 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Kim wrote:

As for The Dixie Chicks and their anti Bush comment made overseas ...
what ever happen to Free Speech - for
what the USA offers?

What does it matter if the Dixie Chicks approve or disapprove of
George Bush - they merely represent
a handful of votes - is our country
and the Bush administration that
insecure that they feel threatened by
comments that are negative?

As fas as I am concerned, the Dixie
Chicks only said what so many of us
thought then and even more think now!

Hats off to the Dixie Chicks!

  • 12.
  • At 07:06 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Shawn wrote:

Obama - he might be a good candidate, but I think he's too new to be elected and needs a little more experience behind him in government.

Dixie Chicks - How is what they've said any different than the democratic party? They're blasted for speaking out against bush because they're a part of the predominately right wing country genre. If they were strictly pop or something other than country, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.

  • 13.
  • At 08:04 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Michael wrote:
  • I pray to God that Mr. Obama is not shot by some pumped up, over stimulated, high on patriotism idiot American who believes they are really doing the right thing. For the rest of you who have never been to Texas, I'll say this, there are an unfortunate number of old school white folks here who would be happy to volunteer. ...not just Texas, but in every state. Look at the state where Borat was during the rodeo scene in his movie. Whether Obama wins or not, he cannot be murdered, but there are certain societies in the United States that will try and make it happen. Does this not suck? How can I, or any of us, stop something like this... or prevent it rather, from happening? There are too many of us Americans who believe it could happen. Our Federal Reserve could finance it somehow I'm sure. American bank owners are playing the world like a broken harp, and cause these things to happen. We need to remember World War I and II and recall past mistakes. It's time to make some evolution in world laws and capitalism. God and humanity are more important than the "IRS" or corporate owners
  • 14.
  • At 08:44 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Matt wrote:

Artists with a political message?! Oh my gosh, what a shock. The Chicks should have known that country fans wouldn't "git" it. I'm sorry but as far as intelligence goes country fans are at the bottom. They just want their truck to work, their girl back, and for God to Bless America and our ignorance. Crack another beer!

  • 15.
  • At 08:51 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Syed Hasan Turab wrote:

Release of German killer is without any guaranty & warranty from German justice, she might ended up like Jaffry Dahmer & Mung hunter of Wi USA.
Mr.Oboma is trying to unite all USA minorities for sure he is competant enough to lead the minorities though he is not black enough by physical appearance but smart enough to deal with confidence & respect with Black, Spanish & Muslim minorities.
For sure he will provide differnt vision to US politics by way of focussing touchy issues as these issues never been addressed by both political parties of USA.
Any way majority of whites may not accept his leadeship, they will support to Mrs. Clinton with ignorance & she might win as her empeached husband is well experienced & may coolect better funds as compair to Oboma.

  • 16.
  • At 08:54 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Cyp Neehall wrote:

Obama's bigger problem (his race being a big one) is to what degree he understands the real machinations of American politics, i.e. who calls the shots??

  • 17.
  • At 09:34 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • Jack in California wrote:

First, the outcries this morning that keeping this cancer in prison for life goes against German law glosses over that fact that murder is against German law. Second, a person may as well kill 500 people if his/her life sentence is served concurrently. Spend 24 years in prison and then collect a pension; citizens are getting screwed from all sides. Lastly, don't worry about the murder; just think for one second about the fathers, sons, brothers who don't get a second chance at life.

  • 18.
  • At 09:34 AM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • GUY FOX wrote:

So... the Dicksee Tricks (or whatever they call themselves) are pop-ewe-liar again! Just goes to show how hick fickled and confused are the Amerikan $heeple people. Indeed! Amerikans are a true-lie ignorant lot... which explains how they got $uckered by Bush into the glorious (sic) war in Iraq-nam, a capitalist pig war profit $cheme not dissimi-liar to the glorious (sic) war in $ovietnam.

  • 19.
  • At 09:38 AM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • Des Currie wrote:

"Our second topic is Barack Obama- the Democratic Presidential candidate in the US. He's hoping to become America's first African American president..and certainly his campaign has got off to a flying start. However some people in the African American community are saying he doesn't represent them..so we're asking if that's true.. We want to hear from US African Americans to hear if he represents their interests"

If Obama gets past this initial stage, and I think he will, his run for the White House will be a race to remember. Whatever his convictions, in particular in regard to American foreign intervention, his run bound to establish a pronounced divide. Republicans (read Bush) have already utilised a foreign tactic in the form of Australia's Howard to undermine Obama. This is extremely interesting, as history will show that America is very protective of their presidency and would seldom broach outside comment of this magnitude. I predict an American backlash.
Then there is the race issue. To discount this would be to deny reality. I suspect that the ravenous head of colour prejudice will shortly be having its fill. Even the BBC is playing the game already with this appeal to "African Americans".
It is going to be fun.
Des Currie

  • 20.
  • At 01:18 PM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • Susan Starke wrote:

The Grammies are awarded by the music industry, which likes to think of itself as brave and progressive, not by popular vote. I doubt that the original fans of the Dixie Chicks have forgiven them; the band has moved on to a different audience who is attracted to them because of, not in spite of, their political views. Their record sales are not what they were before Natalie Maines' PR gaffe. Certainly she can say whatever she wants, but then she (and anyone else) has to allow the right of others to disagree and be offended by what she says.

  • 21.
  • At 02:14 PM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • Kent Coe wrote:

The news media continue to identify Barak Obama as an African-American. But he is just as much a European-American. If Senator Obama is elected President he would not only be the first African-American President, he would also be the 44th European-American President. Is the media racist in not pointing out this fact?

  • 22.
  • At 06:06 PM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • MoniqueDC wrote:

I find all the focus upon the race of Barak Obama to be a distraction.

Why are we Americans obsessed with defining everything by race? It is not useful and merely serves to further divide us.

Inherent in ALL comments about Obama's race is built-in bias (verging on racism).

He is a very intelligent man with an ability to connect with all kinds of people. Clearly he sees a vision for America that would move us forward. He is a leader. And we desparately need leadership now.

So, leave you racist biases at the door, open your mind and start considering for whom you wish to vote as President for the US as a political an intellectual decision - not a beauty pagent nor a sports event.

Annoyed with the American voters - most of whom don't vote.

  • 23.
  • At 06:45 PM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • tonykarpen wrote:

I DO NOT SUPPORT RAF IN ANY WAY
BUT
tonykarpen@hotmail.com
(phone below)
The tones of moral outrage sound like you are in a bad film, or you are victims of an ideology or you want to make it clear what you would think about anyone who tried to re-establish a RAF.-
Let us get some things straight...or am I just wasting my time as you ride forth on your hobby horse.

Remorse plays no role in the German legal system. It doesn't exist in the legislation. Did the Neo-Nazi killers in the '90s who killed in total over 100 people (Solingen, Rostock, Moelln etc.) ever show any remorse. think of the opening scene of 'King Lear' and Cordelia's “Nothing”; we show remorse in what we do and not in what we say.

Germany is a country with probably the worst mass killers whop have ever lived on Planet earth,; their regime was the meeting of out-of-control sadists and industrialism; killing in mass production style. very few people in the Nazi regime ever showed any remorse. Not one judge was ever prosecuted; they all got away with it.

Will you sneer at them and speak of them with contempt in your voice? No of course you won't because they and their students (who are now judges), and the students of the 2nd generation

And they got away with it as you know. You will have read your colleague's book (Tom Bower) about the failure for the most part of the attempt made by the Allies to prosecute Nazi war criminals.
Schleyer was Gestapo boss in Prague and assisted in massacres. That doesn't justify what the RAF did to him but it heavily ironises his son's unthinking call for remorse from Klar & Co.

And the state killed people. I'm sure you won't have K-H Weidenhamer's book 'Selbstmord oder Mord (Malik Verlag Kiel) 1988. He was the lawyer of one of the three (Raspe) who "died " in Stammheim (1977).
I think I am neutral but there is no other conclusion in my mind excerpt that the state organised the murder of the three in the hot autumn of 1977 (including Baader). For example, all the cells were rigorously searched every day; where could Baader have hidden a gun? Supposedly he hid it in the gramophone. But that was very small, and the weight of a gun would have immediately have been noticed. And all visitors were rigorously searched with the help metal detectors.

In the pro-state books written for TV programmes they authors speculate about whether Baader was hoping to be released as a result of the Schleyer kidnapping, and they go on to surmise that he would have hoped not to wear underpants in Berlin! Oh really!

I'll give you a balanced p.o.v. (point of view) if you call me “live” Or is that against your self-imposed censorship? Scissors in brain syndrome? Too dangerous….You are collaborating with the censorship of anything that sounds remotely like a persuasive argument that doesn’t back the state in this argument.
Come on!

Tony

  • 24.
  • At 02:36 PM on 14 Feb 2007,
  • Mark wrote:

The release of mass murdering terrorists in Germany makes a perfect case for having, keeping, and using the death penalty. It insures that soft brained weak minded people will never be able to release perpetrators of some of the most heinous crimes possible back into society. And what will the authorities say if they go back to committing the same kind of crimes again? "Sorry"?

  • 25.
  • At 03:24 PM on 26 Mar 2007,
  • B.Gaubert wrote:

Hi,When will Bush tell the truth.

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